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Why is downtown Gary, IN abandoned and desolate?

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Anybody from Indiana have the inside scoop on what happened here?

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2.1
{"commentId":787435,"authorDomain":"beevine"}

If it's this bad near Chicago, what is it like in the rest of the state?

{"commentId":787435,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"beevine"}
  • 5 votes
Reply#1 - Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:37 AM EDT
{"commentId":787514,"authorDomain":"paperdragon"}

It's better in the rest of the state.

Gary pretty much died in the 80's, when the steel mills all closed.

You can thank Ronald Reagan.

{"commentId":787514,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"paperdragon"}
  • 8 votes
#1.1 - Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:39 AM EDT
{"commentId":787882,"authorDomain":"spiffie"}

My mother is actually from around Gary. They've been economically depressed for about as long as I can remember. I read once that Gary was the most economically depressed area in the entire country, and I can believe it. A few of the mills nearby managed to hang on into the 21st century, but I think LTV closed up a few years ago. I had two cousins working there.

{"commentId":787882,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"spiffie"}
  • 2 votes
#1.2 - Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:26 PM EDT
{"commentId":788076,"authorDomain":"paperdragon"}

I'm from around there too - The East Side, a neighborhood in the southeast corner of Chicago. Growing up, everyone I knew worked in the mills. Both grandfathers retired from USA Steel, my Dad spent 38 years at Republic, which became LTV (Long Term Vacation).

The whole area was decimated in the 80's. Wisconsin Steel, Interlake, Republic, US Steel - all gone now.

{"commentId":788076,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"paperdragon"}
  • 3 votes
#1.3 - Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:13 PM EDT
{"commentId":788148,"authorDomain":"spiffie"}

Both my grandfathers retired from US Steel, and happily lived long enough to enjoy their pensions. My parents met while working a summer at US Steel.

{"commentId":788148,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"spiffie"}
  • 2 votes
#1.4 - Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:50 PM EDT
{"commentId":789063,"authorDomain":"wingod"}

Ronald Reagan? Gimme a break. More like Jimbo Carter. All of the antipollution requirements were too expensive to meet and the mills moved to China and India. Also, the Union did not want the mills updated to improve productivity (and reduce the number of workers) so the mills left and all the jobs wet away. Wonderful deal that was huh. Same thing happened in Birmingham Alabama. However, now some of the mills are moving back here. A German company just announced a $4 billion dollar mill in South Alabama, highly automated but will employ 2.700 workers with an average salary of $65k per year.

Alabama has the lowest unemployment in the nation today at 3.1% because of low taxes, industrial development support, and a motivated workforce.

We live in a globally competitive environment today, get used to it or get used to ghost towns.

{"commentId":789063,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"wingod"}
  • 4 votes
#1.5 - Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:55 AM EDT
{"commentId":789211,"authorDomain":"stolte-sawa"}
I read once that Gary was the most economically depressed area in the entire country, and I can believe it.

I've also read that it's the most dangerous. Driving through it, I wouldn't be surprised. The streets are desolate by 6PM.

And it stinks. Bad.

{"commentId":789211,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"stolte-sawa"}
  • 4 votes
#1.6 - Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:22 AM EDT
{"commentId":789773,"authorDomain":"wmolaw"}

Brian:

Ronald Reagan? Want to tell us why it was his fault?

{"commentId":789773,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"wmolaw"}
  • 2 votes
#1.7 - Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:36 AM EDT
{"commentId":789790,"authorDomain":"stolte-sawa"}
Ronald Reagan? Want to tell us why it was his fault?

Requires no explanation.

(Heh heh.)

{"commentId":789790,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"stolte-sawa"}
  • 2 votes
#1.8 - Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:47 AM EDT
{"commentId":789842,"authorDomain":"wmolaw"}

I guess it doesn't.

{"commentId":789842,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"wmolaw"}
  • 2 votes
#1.9 - Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:08 PM EDT
{"commentId":789948,"authorDomain":"melonhead"}

- - and it stinks. Oh, stolte-sawa, you bring back a memory. Back in the early 60s, when we were kids, as we passed Gary on our way to relatives in Chicago, my bros would breathe in deeply and exclaim "Gary is beautiful!!" The sight of the fire-belching steel mills thrilled them, and the smell at that time reminded me of Canadian bacon. I was to young to know that a city shouldn't smell - esp for miles off.

{"commentId":789948,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"melonhead"}
  • 2 votes
#1.10 - Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:45 PM EDT
{"commentId":790459,"authorDomain":"stolte-sawa"}
Canadian bacon

Do you mean the pork, or the film?

{"commentId":790459,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"stolte-sawa"}
  • 1 vote
#1.11 - Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:32 PM EDT
{"commentId":790809,"authorDomain":"melonhead"}

heh-heh - the film wasn't that bad, was it?

{"commentId":790809,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"melonhead"}
  • 1 vote
#1.12 - Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:30 PM EDT
{"commentId":790890,"authorDomain":"stolte-sawa"}

Heh. I don't know. You tell me.

{"commentId":790890,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"stolte-sawa"}
    #1.13 - Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:57 PM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":788040,"authorDomain":"conservationist"}

    They are waiting for the Rock concerts to arrive, improve the Parks, green roofs and beautify the cities. Larry Pellows of Lallapalooza stated that this was thier future mission when he appeared on the George Stromboulopolis show.

    {"commentId":788040,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"conservationist"}
    • 4 votes
    Reply#2 - Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:49 PM EDT
    {"commentId":788884,"authorDomain":"vikibabbles"}

    Lollapalooza seeks to beautify Gary, IN? I haven't heard this--do you have a link to a source? Thanks!

    {"commentId":788884,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"vikibabbles"}
    • 3 votes
    #2.1 - Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:24 PM EDT
    {"commentId":789491,"authorDomain":"Courtisin"}

    I voted you up for even trying to spell that name, never mind getting it right ;b

    {"commentId":789491,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"Courtisin"}
    • 2 votes
    #2.2 - Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:30 AM EDT
    {"commentId":789733,"authorDomain":"vikibabbles"}

    Thanks, Mr Do, although I'd better be able to spell it right if I'm going to cover Lollapalooza for Newsvine!

    {"commentId":789733,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"vikibabbles"}
    • 2 votes
    #2.3 - Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:12 AM EDT
    {"commentId":789744,"authorDomain":"Courtisin"}

    Lollapalooza? Congrats on getting to cover the story. I was referring to stromboulopolus!

    {"commentId":789744,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"Courtisin"}
    • 2 votes
    #2.4 - Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:19 AM EDT
    {"commentId":789813,"authorDomain":"vikibabbles"}

    lol!

    {"commentId":789813,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"vikibabbles"}
    • 1 vote
    #2.5 - Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:57 AM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":788874,"authorDomain":"superfive"}

    Michael Moore's "Roger and Me," while controversial, is also insightful.

    {"commentId":788874,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"superfive"}
    • 2 votes
    Reply#3 - Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:19 PM EDT
    {"commentId":789202,"authorDomain":"melonhead"}

    Couldn't get to the site, but have driven past on the way to Chicago. I'm a Clevelander, and Gary is probably the worst, but not the sole example of the decline of the Great lakes region. Cleveland, Buffalo, Toledo, Detroit, Rochester, Erie - the Rust Belt is suffering by & large. Only Chicago is big enough & diverse enough to have avoided this collapse. It's really depressing.

    {"commentId":789202,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"melonhead"}
    • 5 votes
    Reply#4 - Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:13 AM EDT
    {"commentId":789426,"authorDomain":"superfive"}

    It's not just the rust belt, though. Johnson City, TN is another example. And Cincinnati seems to be doing well, besides being in the rust belt.

    Did the kids of the plant workers in Gary, etc. move to Chicago suburbs?

    {"commentId":789426,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"superfive"}
    • 2 votes
    #4.1 - Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:39 AM EDT
    {"commentId":789592,"authorDomain":"melonhead"}

    Likewise St. Louis, MO, while not rust belt - is a shadow of its former self.

    I lived in Cincinnati in the 70s - interesting town. Procter and Gamble remains strong, which helps the city's fortunes. Additionally, Cleveland is a blue town in a red state, which I think explains why Cinci & Columbus are on the rise - they are more conservative, thus more attractive to businesses who may want to put up shop amongst the like-minded.

    {"commentId":789592,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"melonhead"}
    • 2 votes
    #4.2 - Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:12 AM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":789218,"authorDomain":"stolte-sawa"}

    I get a 403 error when I click on the seed link.

    Wasn't Gary a steel mill town? I always understood that it was one of those places where the only industry it ever had stole away one dark night, leaving its residents high and dry. I've always heard that Gary was a high-crime area. Here is a website with some interesting statistics. I guess the murder rate is almost nine times the national average.

    {"commentId":789218,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"stolte-sawa"}
    • 4 votes
    Reply#5 - Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:34 AM EDT
    {"commentId":789228,"authorDomain":"spiffie"}

    My grandparents lived in Chesterton and Lake Station, both near Gary, and both with union steel workers. I've been going up to visit the area for about 25 years (I'm actually going up again in about two weeks). On one visit about five years ago, my aunt took me to look at a housing development just outside Chesterton. It was maybe 20 new houses, so a tiny, tiny development. But it was the first time I could remember seeing new houses in the area. Ever. Every other house I had ever seen had been around at least 10 years before I was born.

    Chesterton is actually doing much better than Lake Station or Gary. I think they get some tourist business. They're very close to Lake Michigan and the Indiana Sand Dunes state park.

    {"commentId":789228,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"spiffie"}
    • 3 votes
    #5.1 - Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:48 AM EDT
    {"commentId":959495,"authorDomain":"MinnieApolis"}

    I got a 403 forbidden message also.
    As an old heavy industrial city, it probably has a lot of brownfields that are very expensive to clean up and re-industrialize.
    And Gary's woes do not reflect on Chicago. Chicago is always going gangbusters and so are the towns in Cook Cty and surrounds. I made the mistake of booking a motel in Merrillville thinking it would be a quiet spot away from Chicago and Gary. Big mistake. Lots and lots of traffic, just about like Chicago.

    {"commentId":959495,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"MinnieApolis"}
    • 1 vote
    #5.2 - Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:55 PM EDT
    {"commentId":1660413,"authorDomain":"yaros"}

    What Gary was, and is, can be viewed on a web site detailing the
    history, development and decline of the "Steel City," "City of the
    Century"and "Murder Capital of the World.

    That site is

    {"commentId":1660413,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"yaros"}
      #5.3 - Sun Apr 6, 2008 6:00 AM EDT
      Reply
      {"commentId":789219,"authorDomain":"melonhead"}

      Here's some photos of abandoned apartment buildings in Gary. Gary was a planned industrial city, and these apartments represented an aspiration to greatness. Very sad.

      {"commentId":789219,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"melonhead"}
      • 5 votes
      Reply#6 - Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:34 AM EDT
      {"commentId":789224,"authorDomain":"stolte-sawa"}

      Nice link. I've seen this website before. Gary reminds me of a smaller Dayton, where middle- and upper-class flight have left the downtown abject. It's a tough problem. Where the hell is the YMCA?

      {"commentId":789224,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"stolte-sawa"}
      • 4 votes
      #6.1 - Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:40 AM EDT
      {"commentId":789604,"authorDomain":"melonhead"}

      check out urbanohio.com for neat pix & forums.

      Say, you're from Toronto, which has also escaped Rust Belt decline, hasn't it?

      This reminds me of something else - the St Lawrence Seaway can't handle the enormous container ships, so shipping is yet another industry in decline in this area.

      Economic flight/white flight is the story of Northeast Ohio - no question that flight is more severe on the multi-racial East Side of Cuyahoga Co. I don't know what it wold take to change an ethos that seems to say if you no longer have to drive past povery, it is no longer your problem - or maybe it no longer even exists. I'm here hanging in in a eastern inner-ring suburb - actually planning to move into the city when my younger finishes HS.

      {"commentId":789604,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"melonhead"}
      • 3 votes
      #6.2 - Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:19 AM EDT
      {"commentId":789653,"authorDomain":"stolte-sawa"}
      I don't know what it wold take to change an ethos that seems to say if you no longer have to drive past povery, it is no longer your problem - or maybe it no longer even exists.

      This is a really astute reading of the problem. I am, indeed, from Toronto, and I imagine part of the reason why it's managed to keep its feet clean is that social justice is built into the legislature. This is--ahem--not the case in Ohio. Ohio also has some questionable development tactics--always spiraling madly outward with new developments, leaving vacant lots and poorer neighbourhoods in their wake.

      Another reason is that Toronto's infrastructure is diverse, so as industry collapsed tourism and commerce moved in to take its place. They recently renovated the old brickyards on the near-east side, which I understand was a pretty rough part of town until recently, into art lofts and bars.

      actually planning to move into the city when my younger finishes HS.

      If you're white and you move into a poor minority neighbourhood, their property values will increase. Something to think about.

      {"commentId":789653,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"stolte-sawa"}
      • 2 votes
      #6.3 - Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:34 AM EDT
      Reply
      {"commentId":789236,"authorDomain":"adventurebooks"}

      I remember driving past Gary on the freeway in the 80's and seeing all those abandoned buildings with the paint peeling off them, etc. It looked pretty desolate, even then.

      {"commentId":789236,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"adventurebooks"}
      • 3 votes
      Reply#7 - Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:57 AM EDT
      {"commentId":789518,"authorDomain":"shore"}

      Camden, New Jersey is another post-industrial ghost town whose abandonment is just downright scary.

      {"commentId":789518,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"shore"}
      • 2 votes
      Reply#8 - Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:39 AM EDT
      {"commentId":789628,"authorDomain":"Courtisin"}

      It smells so bad that during the Gary interval, on the I94 east or west, I try holding my breath. Depending on the prevailing winds, sometimes I actually avoid the stench.

      Those building are vintage and would certainly look magnificent fixed up and landsacped. I think Gary could be a Going Green model for the rest of America. After all it can only get better.

      {"commentId":789628,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"Courtisin"}
      • 2 votes
      Reply#9 - Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:26 AM EDT
      {"commentId":789655,"authorDomain":"stolte-sawa"}
      After all it can only get better.

      Heh. Or leveled. Good point on Going Green, and that apartment building looks like a grand old hotel, doesn't it?

      {"commentId":789655,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"stolte-sawa"}
      • 3 votes
      #9.1 - Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:36 AM EDT
      {"commentId":789680,"authorDomain":"Courtisin"}

      I dare say the timbers contained within the structure would likely be hardwoods. If it were not for the crime, I never stop within 30 miles of Gary, I would love to raze one of those structures just reclaim that wood.

      {"commentId":789680,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"Courtisin"}
      • 1 vote
      #9.2 - Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:48 AM EDT
      {"commentId":791473,"authorDomain":"adventurebooks"}

      They're not actually 'Going Green' in Gary.

      That's mold...

      {"commentId":791473,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"adventurebooks"}
      • 1 vote
      #9.3 - Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:25 AM EDT
      Reply
      {"commentId":1075932,"authorDomain":"richventure"}

      The problem with the demise of Gary, Indiana, has to do with the fact that Gary is a company town without a company! Founded by US Steel and named after the company CEO, changes in the steel industry have reduced its demand for cheap, inexperienced labor. Today, the steel mills will not even take your application unless you have two years of college and an associates degree.

      People graduating from Gary schools are short on skills in reading, writing and math. Mayor Rudy Clay of Gary only has a GED and did not graduate from high school! Gary has just lost a federal grant for city bus service because they misspent over $4 million in federal funds last year.

      The School Board consists of some people who rob the coffers for their own use. Board member Ledbetter recently used a city school board credit card to fly to Tokyo, Japan, to visit her boyfriend (over $5,000 was used by her and the city of Gary paid for it). State auditors claim she needs to reimburse the schools but she has yet to do so and she continues to sit on the school board.

      We are coming off another scandle with the Gary Urban Enterprise Authority (GUEA) in which the executive director stole more than one million and filled the pockets of friends and family with inside land swap deals in which GUEA paid inflated prices for empty houses to their friends. Several have been indicted and are awaiting trial.

      I remember in the 60s when Black Separatists wanted their own State and they were going to run things. Gary is the urban example of that misdirection. Gary has the highest percentage of African Americans (86.6 percent) of any US City over 100,000. They run the show and you cannot participate in anything unless you are African American. I had one great idea for community development and went to my city councilman and was asked, "Who do you have working with you?" meaning: "What person of color is working with you?" I got the message and dropped the project.

      I attended a meeting following Rudy Clay's "election" where, as county chairman of the Democratic Part in Lake County, IN, (he was elected 24 to 23 by precinct people), where Clay got up to announce "We've taken the city back!"... meaning, away from the previous duly elected major, Scott King, who was white. So race plays the key role here.

      When Richard Hatcher (a Black) was elected Major in 1966 (?), white residents saw the handwriting on the wall and moved out of the city, taking their capital, their homes, their businesses, with them. Today Gary does not have an office supply store, no retail chain store, no major grocery store for the 100,000 residents. The price we pay is to drive 15 miles to buy at other business outside of the City of Gary.

      So much for the Great Black Separatist Experiment. It has failed miserably and will not improve until Black leadership (if you can call it that) realizes that no one can succeed unless we all succeed.

      There are many, many fine people here who attend church, raise their families and look forward to the American dream. But until the city has a vision and city leaders (?) realize their shortcomings, nothing will change...

      {"commentId":1075932,"threadId":"114937","contentId":"786476","authorDomain":"richventure"}
      • 2 votes
      Reply#10 - Fri Oct 5, 2007 1:16 PM EDT
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